Podcast: The Fundamentals of Online Marketing with Bruce Rowe of Sebo Marketing

February 23, 2020

Eric Stopper

Listen to the podcast

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

• [01:09] Joe Hansen introduces Bruce Rowe, President and owner of Sebo Marketing
• [02:44] What the name change from Google AdWords to Google Ads means for the industry
• [04:37] Using voice-based search engines like  Google Voice Search and Siri
• [05:04] The big brother concept at Google
• [08:47] Can educating people help change their negative perceptions of Google?
• [11:42] Should Google adjust their algorithms to fulfill people’s needs as opposed to relevance?
• [13:30] The work Sebo Marketing did for Jane.com
• [17:28] How Amazon affects Bruce’s business
• [20:06] Foundational principles for new companies in setting up their e-commerce marketing
• [25:21] An employer’s obligation to his employees in terms of personal growth
• [29:55] Sebo Marketing updates and why people should reach out to you to help them with Google

Resources Mentioned on this episode

• Burce Rower LinkedIn
• Sebo Marketing
• Sebo Marketing Website Bootcamps
• Contact Rachel: [email protected]

Sponsor for this episode

Buy Box Experts applies decades of e-commerce experience to successfully manage clients’ marketplace accounts. The Buy Box account managers specialize in combining an understanding of clients’ business fundamentals and an in-depth expertise in the Amazon Marketplace.

The team works with marketplace technicians using a system of processes, proprietary software, and extensive channel experience to ensure your Amazon presence captures the opportunity on the marketplace, not only producing greater revenue and profits, but also reducing or eliminating your business’ workload.

Buy Box Experts prides itself on being one of the few agencies with an SMB (small to medium-sized business) division and an Enterprise division. Buy Box does not commingle clients among divisions as each has unique needs and requirements for proper account management.

Episode Transcript

Intro 0:17
Welcome to the Buy Box Experts Podcast with your host, Joseph Hansen. We bring to light the unique opportunities brands face and today’s e-commerce world. And now here’s your host, Joseph Hansen.

Eric Stopper 0:33
This episode is brought to you Buy Box Experts Podcast. Buy Box Experts takes ambitious brands and makes them on beatable. They have a team of consultants that will identify key low hanging fruit for some of your best selling hastens on Amazon. I am a part of this consulting team. Please call and reach out. Go to buyboxexperts.com click on the free analysis button. It’s completely free, no strings attached for now. We have some limited time and so it’s point we may not decide to offer this anymore but for now you can get a free listing analysis by going to buy box experts. com Hey everyone and welcome to the Buy Box Experts Podcast I am joined today by Bruce row president and owner of Sebo Marketing based in Provo, Utah. ceiba is Utah’s Google experts. seabone marketing drives traffic to websites through search engines. The SEO and PPC Sebo Marketing improves website conversion rates by maximizing leads sales and profits. Bruce is a husband a father and for a little under a year has been a grandpa. Congratulations. Thank you very much habits gear and a few months ago you could find him crawling through the mud in Hawaii competing in the Spartan beast is that the only Spartan Race that you’ve competed in,

Bruce Rowe 1:48
that’s that was the first part I’ve done. It was my 30th half marathon. It was definitely the hardest half marathon as well by quite a long shot.

Eric Stopper 1:56
Oh man. I’ve done one Spartan My life. What length of Spartan was it? It was the surfing sprint. So I think it was just a junior one.

Bruce Rowe 2:05
Yes, that’s about three miles. And then there’s the super, which is about eight miles and the Beast is at least 30 miles. They don’t tell you till you get there. And then you see how it goes. Interesting. That’s, that’s incredible.

Eric Stopper 2:18
Bruce also gives his time to the local universities as a guest, a guest lecturer, which is actually where I met him. He was my first real instructor in the art of Google ads. I have a profound amount of respect and admiration for him. Bruce, welcome to the show.

Bruce Rowe 2:33
Thanks very much. Looking forward to that.

Eric Stopper 2:36
So I had a lot that I want to talk to you about. I cut my teeth on Google with you. And so I think this is going to be a fun conversation for us. The first thing that I want to dive into with you is the recent name change that Google AdWords went through. Can you tell us a little bit about what happened and what it means for the industry as a whole?

Bruce Rowe 2:53
Yeah, so it happened about a year ago or so a lot of people are still kind of becoming aware of it, but people are used to the phrases Google AdWords, technically, that’s no longer correct. It’s no longer called Google AdWords. It’s called Google ads. The reason for that is the way Google described it is Ad Words means that words are triggering ads. But that doesn’t give a very accurate depiction or description of how the ads actually trigger. So in general, when I first started doing Google ads, AdWords stuff back in 2004, the only way you could get your ads to trigger through words or through text, but now your ads can trigger based on text. They can based on videos that can be showing up in display ads. So all over the internet, there’s millions and millions of websites that will show Google ads and have nothing to do with words. And so Google just was realizing that AdWords is not a very accurate description anymore. And so they rebranded it to Google ads, and an interesting little stat in in quarter three of this year. Google did $40 billion in revenue. That’s billion with a B. And most of that revenue comes from their Google their ads. But 6 billion of that during the quarter or 2 billion a month, comes from ads that are not triggered triggered based on words. So people are looking for a topic, people are looking on YouTube for something and they see things. They are on news sites, or whatever kind of sites. And they see ads that are not triggered based on people typing in words into Google. And that idea is really still very new to a lot of people. So what about I think that begs the question, right? What about voice Alexa and Siri and these other search engines? Right? Do you have to consider those when you’re working with? And that’s an interesting way to say it because most people don’t connect the fact that Siri is a search engine. Or if I ask Google a question, that that’s going to be a search engine obviously, but you Anytime you’re looking for something that’s a search engine. And so the search engines are trying to figure out what you’re looking for. And they’re trying to serve you a clickable ads. When I guess speak a lot, one of the common questions I asked is what does Google actually do? And obviously, I’m going for questions like they provide search results, and they show your relevant ads. But they also provide Android software. And they provide Google Docs and Google Sheets and all these other things in Google Maps and all these tools that are our major part of our life. But somebody always says when I say what is Google do they say they spy on us? Um, they’re, they’re listening. They’re watching. They’re, they’re seeing what we’re doing. And I always love that because it’s kind of like, I’m scared of Google. I’m nervous about this topic. But in reality, if, if Google didn’t know what my interests were and what I was looking for, this Things I would see online would actually be dramatically different and dramatically less relevant. So times where some people feel it might cross the line a little bit. But I, I’ve been to Google enough times, I’ve talked to lots and lots and lots and lots of people at Google about this topic. And they’re just trying to make relevant

Bruce Rowe 6:20
content for you to make that available to you.

Eric Stopper 6:22
So these are the I mean, these are data scientists, right? These absolutely engineers at Google, they come from a place of benevolence. But how do you think that you put people’s minds at ease about this kind of big brother concept of Google collecting garnering this data about you so that your experience online is is much more fruitful, much more enjoyable.

Bruce Rowe 6:45
Obviously, if I’m going to be looking online, going back to the spot and topic, if I’m going to be looking online for things, and I’m going to see other ads showing up or other things just triggering on my screen, I would rather have that be about running Or skiing or racing, or those kind of things as opposed to florists shops, and other things that my wife might be interested in, but I’m not gonna be as interested in. And so I want to have a relevant online experience. And again, personally, I, I trust the fact that they are not trying to use this in a, in an evil type of manner. They’re trying to be relevant to it. And and often somebody says, but that’s just too much information. And then I’ll say, Well, what kind of online profile Have you created? Like, think about Facebook? I mean, Facebook, you have, I’m telling them that I’m married, I’m telling them that I have kids, I’m telling them where I live, I’m telling them everything that I’m interested in. So most people are completely fine with you giving that information but as soon as Google is just figuring it out on their own, now all of a sudden, it has this potentially weird connotation to a lot of people.

Eric Stopper 7:56
So what do you say to the people who are are paranoid when they see an ad for a product that they were talking about with one of their friends, right? They say, oh, Siri was listening. What do you say to those people?

Bruce Rowe 8:12
That’s a great question. Some people are just gonna have a problem with it no matter what. We need some people that’s just going to bother them and they’re going to invest the case, then, then they should be way more careful online, they should turn off more things and notifications and all this other kind of stuff. And they should be browsing more incognito and all the rest of those kind of things that they could potentially do. But honestly, their online experience to the relevance of what they’re seeing online will go down way more than they realize.

Eric Stopper 8:43
It honestly sounds like a, like a lack of education. Yeah. If you could sit everyone down and have this conversation with them. Do you think that the perception would change?

Bruce Rowe 8:56
I think there’s if you kind of looked at this big one line. I think that’s a great question. If you looked a big long line of everybody on one end of the spectrum, you have the people that are gonna be paranoid about it no matter what the other people on the other side of the spectrum are going to be comfortable with it no matter what, then you have a group of people in the middle that could go either way, meaning they can be swayed one way or the other. I think the people that are on the more paranoid side of the question or that side of the spectrum, I think they’re, it’s going to be hard for them to feel comfortable with it. I think it’s just kind of in their nature to be that way. But education, I have a good friend, his name is Mike. And he, he definitely is concerned about that. And after he and I have sat down and talked about it further, he’s way less concerned than he was. He still doesn’t necessarily like it. But he’s very, very, very careful with his online profile and doesn’t kind of put up any type of information. But still, the sites you visit are going to tell you like if I’m looking for a new or used car I’m searching on websites for different use cars. It makes sense that Google and other sites would know that I’m in that industry meaning I’m in Google calls that an audience that I’m in the market for that particular thing. And so I want to see things that are relevant to what I’m currently the challenges I’m currently looking for. And so I’m realize that that that made them a little bit less concerned about it. But it’s still it’s an interesting it’s an interesting topic. And but I do think education will help a lot.

Eric Stopper 10:34
Yeah, I think so too. So So Mark Manson. Ilan musk. There’s there’s a lot of people who talk about how how AI right is going to be this new super God for us. And we’re going to have everything spoon fed to us all of our all of our wants and desires just on a silver platter. Yeah. And they often make the argument that that’s that’s a bad thing. Now you mentioned that you You know, it wouldn’t make sense for you to see an advertisement for a flower shop. But what if that’s a need for you? Right? Like maybe Google sees that you’ve been married for? How long? Have you been married? 30? Yeah.

Bruce Rowe 11:16
And you have almost 30 years. Sorry, gets my wife here is this 30 years will be the next. That’s right. So,

Eric Stopper 11:24
right. So so so Google knows this year anniversary coming up, you know that she’s into grandma. And they have an algorithm that’s let’s say that that says, hey, it would make more sense for you, instead of worrying about running to go to the flower shop. Sure. Do you think that Google at least that their ability to advertise into adjust their algorithms to help us fulfill needs as opposed to once is going to be a focus for them moving forward? Are they just going to focus on relevancy and give you what you’re looking for?

Bruce Rowe 11:59
Sure. We probably don’t have a Time to don’t dive into that one. But if you come back to that, using that example, if Google knows that my wife’s birthday is in May, and my anniversaries in December, it would make sense for them maybe to trigger flower ads for your wife’s birthday. That I could if I saw that now, that becomes a relevant topic to me at that moment in time, meaning when I’m in the market for that particular idea, that makes tons of sense to have that relevancy trigger that kind of that. And so, so again, some people might think, Oh, that’s a little creepy. But all all Google’s trying to do is they’re trying to just make, show the most relevant ads at the most relevant times. Right, just interrupt. It’s an interesting topic for you.

Eric Stopper 12:46
I mean, you essentially spend your days talking to robots, then, for your customers. If you think that’s a fair description.

Bruce Rowe 12:55
General

Bruce Rowe 12:56
we’re trying to understand what the robots are looking for. Give them what they’re wanting, as opposed to talking to robots said, I, if I send that to a junior high classroom, they would have a big picture in their mind of what I’m doing. And that’s a very accurate, very accurate description. So that again, you’re you definitely want to understand what Google is looking for and what they’re trying to serve and then show the correct things. the client’s needs.

Eric Stopper 13:27
I think that makes a lot of sense. So you I mean, you have you’ve worked with a ton of different Utah based and non Utah based companies. And I see that you did some work for Jane calm. Yeah. And JD Stice a great man. Yeah, rest in peace. Right. It was it was a tragedy to hear what happened. But yeah. Can you tell me a little bit about what CBOE did for Jane and and so the listeners can kind of hear these the processes that you go through and the best practices? Sure.

Bruce Rowe 13:56
So they are doing an online

Bruce Rowe 14:00
They’re selling a bunch of different things online. And they did a really, really, really good job with that stuff. One thing they were trying to do is they’re trying to have better insights into how the traffic was arriving at their site, they’re actually turning into sales to was they’re trying to have their site show up more often in SEO and pay per click results. So the three things that we were kind of doing together, we’re trying to make sure that the data is nice and clean. So in other words, if they spend X number of dollars on this channel versus that channel versus that channel, which one is actually producing the best ROI, and how to measure that? Most companies? Honestly, again, I’ve I’ve analyzed this data, it’s close to 92% of the ones that I’ve analyzed, and this is with thousands and thousands of websites don’t have their data tracking in place correctly, meaning they don’t have the correct insights to know which channels are producing the right level of revenue. There’s a more advanced topic called attribution, which essentially just says, Well, what if somebody does a search They see a pay per click ad, then they leave the site and then they come back to the site later and then they purchase from Jane calm should pay per click get zero credit should pay per gig get 100% of the credit for that sale, even though the transaction didn’t take place during the pay per click visit. So there’s some there’s some attribution discussions and things that people need to think through as well. But the big picture is people don’t understand the data that is being gathered with their website, and they don’t have it analyzed correctly to know which channels are producing what kind of revenue. I hear that all the time that if I just knew that, if I put $1,000 into this channel, it’s gonna make me $5,000 back out, I would spend as much money as possible, right, and all those insights just aren’t there. So that was one big thing that we helped chain with. And then they had pay per click in place. There is a lot of inefficiencies with how they’re doing pay per click, initially, and so I work with JD at the time, I work with my At the time, and we went through their account and just tried to make their account more efficient. And then there’s a bunch of SEO things that there’s a bunch of opportunities that they were doing that, that they just weren’t exploring well enough. And so there’s a lot of words that they should be showing up where should have been showing up for that they weren’t that we help them show up higher for those words.

Eric Stopper 16:24
And so the the overall result, right, like if we’re talking about total macro improvements, or their feelings towards what you did, what was kind of the result of all this.

Bruce Rowe 16:35
I don’t want to go through actual sure that number is just that, but it was a very, very big increase on all of those different fronts, and, and in our model, and what we’re trying to do is we work with companies on a month to month basis. And so as long as they they see an increase in what we’re trying to help them with, and they keep us around and then if they don’t see that in crease on whatever thing we’re working with on them or with them, then they’re they’re free to kind of go off on their own. And so when we work with people, they definitely are seeing increases, be consistently.

Eric Stopper 17:12
Awesome. And I mean, you’ve been doing this since 2005. Right? So you’ve just been rolling with the punches for 14 years or 2004. You said, right.

Bruce Rowe 17:19
It was the first clients for 2004. And I had several clients by the end of 2004. And then I incorporated the company in 2005.

Eric Stopper 17:28
Very nice. Now my so my area of focus right, as as by box experts is is Amazon specifically. And I heard a couple of weeks ago that Amazon is Google’s biggest customer when it comes to product ad buying. So my question for you is how do you view Amazon in your business? Are they benevolent? Are they to be feared or do you utilize them like a tool?

Bruce Rowe 17:52
So Amazon’s awesome. We don’t see them at all as a something that we’re fearing. But let’s just take if we just take a random company at selling a product, they can sell it on their website, they can sell it on Amazon, they should absolutely be looking at all of their particular options. I just met with a guy last week. And he said he tried doing things on Amazon, but he had to be on amazon prime and the way that he did things, I won’t go into details, it didn’t make sense for him to provide that level of inventory to Amazon for that many different skews. And so for him, again, it was there was so many different little tweaks to these little skews that he had and not going through the details. But it didn’t make sense for him to have that much quantity of inventory at Amazon that he had to provide. And so the math for him didn’t make sense. But we have a bunch of other clients that it makes complete sense for them to be on Amazon, and to be on Google. And so you want to it’s just another channel to promote your brand or promote your products. So it’s absolutely should be utilized people should no question see if Amazon makes sense. And to your your team, I’ve given you guys a number of different referrals to people who I think needed to explore Amazon more fully. And so it’s just a different channel that they need to be researching

Eric Stopper 19:27
it. It honestly, it honestly sounds like when you were describing the work that you did for Jane, and and the work in general that you do for your clients and how you describe it, it almost seems like you’re coming in with just the most realistic outlook like you take a very pragmatic approach to the data saying, Okay, why why isn’t this very simple thing set up? Why are you tracking this as opposed to this? And, and when I was taking your class, you broke things down very, very simply. When so One was going to set up a business just fresh off the street, right? It would they wanted to they wanted to start ranking for Google. Yeah. Can you? Can you walk me through the like the critical steps that new companies should follow? And what simple questions they should ask themselves when when setting these kinds of things up?

Bruce Rowe 20:17
Sure. I think you’re referring to we talked about the website performance checklist. years ago, what happened was somebody would come and they’d say, Hey, can we do SEO? And we’d look at it or can we do pay per click, and we’d look at things together. And I’d be like, that’s not the right decision to make sure we could do some SEO efforts are sure we can do pay per click efforts, but it’s not the right decision unless you have the right things in place. So those foundational principles, number one, is your website set up to do the job you want it to do. In other words, if it’s an e commerce website, Can people place orders on your website? Just yesterday, we had a lady that called in to the office and said, Hey, I found you guys online. Can you help me with this and she sells some stuff. Some goat milk soaps, young, she was trying to figure out how to make her website work better. And all of her ordering wasn’t really working the right way anymore. And so as a result, she couldn’t pass off step one of the website performance checklist. It’s ecommerce, but those sales weren’t happening on her website. So she needs to fix that. So now let’s suppose that she has that setup. Then step two, is do you have the data tracking correctly? So earlier I said 92% of the people that we’ve analyzed do not have analytics in place and and configured correctly. Meaning are they filtering out visits from themselves? Do they have goals set up? Do they have thank you pages setups that they can track things? There’s lots of parts of step two is website performance checklist, which again, is do they have data tracking correctly. Step three. Once You have data tracking correctly? Do you have enough data, you can’t just set it up correctly, and then analyze the data Five minutes later, you have to wait until you have at least a couple hundred visitors, and then see what happens. Step four is then you analyze the data. I can’t tell you how many hundreds of people, it might even be thousand people that have said, Yeah, I have analytics setup, but I don’t know what to look for. I don’t even know how to get into my analytics account. So step four is just go look at the data. How many people are coming? What are they doing? What’s working, if you have 1000 people coming to your website, and you’re getting no phone calls, or no form fills or no online orders, then SEO is a terribly dumb idea. Because if you’re driving more, so we had a client in Boston, and he said, Bruce, I want SEO and I looked at his data and I said no, you need conversion rate optimization. And he said no, if I get more traffic than my sales on the way up, and I ran the math forum, and I said, I said if we gym if we triple your traffic, what’s going to happen? Your sales will go up a little bit that we could spend the amount of effort it takes to triple your traffic we could spend on conversion rate optimization. And we could make dramatic changes in the performance website. You said, No, no, I just want to see what I’ve heard. You’re really good at it. So here’s some money, do it. And I tried to push back. And we did SEO for about three months, and we increase the traffic a decent amount, but it sales barely went up. Because he was when we looked at the data, he was doing the wrong thing. So Step five is you look at the data, and then you decide what is the smart steps to make next. Again, in his case, it was do conversion rate optimization, but he wanted SEO. Just last week, I was down in St. George meeting with a partner and I had a meeting with a potential client down there as well. And he said, my family and friends say I need to understand SEO better. And we went and looked at his business and he he was only on step two at a website performance. list. But I can already tell in advance that SEO is the wrong strategy for them. And I told him and I said, Can I’m an SEO guy, I want you to do SEO. But that’s the wrong thing for your business. So the website performance checklist is a five step process. Do you have the site? Do you have the right data being gathered? Do you have enough data? Are you have you analyze the data? And then are you smart with what you’re trying to do next? Yes. And that cbos website, we have a, there’s an interactive version of that on our site, so people can go through it and see what stuff they’re at.

Eric Stopper 24:34
Yeah, and I remember you asking for number one, right? Is the website setup correctly? You also had almost like an appendix question to that, which is, are you happy with it? Yeah. Right. Are you happy with what it’s doing? Is it is it at least accomplishing the job are all the boxes checked? Which I think everyone should do. So yeah, set up, set it up, right. Get the data tracking in order, collect enough data to make some statistically Significant insight, conclusions, analyze the data, right? And then make smart steps based on those insights. That’s great. Yeah. So many people, right, like you’re, you’re this business owner, you’ve been in this for 15 years. And you have you have all these employees. You’ve probably heard the old business proverb about the the two managers discussing training where one says to the other, you know, what if we train our employees and they leave and the other responses, or what if we train them, and if we don’t train them, and they stay? And when I was in your class, you put a pretty heavy emphasis on personal growth and development. And I wanted to ask you, what do you as a business owner, believe your obligation is your employees in terms of personal growth?

Bruce Rowe 25:47
that’s a that’s a great question. And I’ve actually been talking to a bunch of different entrepreneurs about this in the last little while, because I just think it’s really fascinating. So I was having lunch with a good friend who owns a similar business to mine not that long ago. And he and I just started talking about that is, do we have an obligation to talk about their personal stuff? Do we have an opportunity to talk about the personal stuff? Or do we avoid the personal stuff? Meaning, obviously, I need to teach my guys about SEO, and pay per click and Google Analytics and all that stuff. But should I be talking to them about their personal budgets, and they’re investing in their health and their social relationships and their family relationships and so, so he and I talked about that a lot of we both felt that that was the right way to go. Meaning that we’re caring more about them as the person and more about them as the employee. So in other words, we’re trying to make them as good a people as we possibly can and so anything we can do to help so when I first brought that up with my wife, she is she said, she said, I don’t know if you if your employees are going to want to talk about their budgets or their finances or their health or whatever, right? So I think the idea is you give them the opportunity. And so what, what Jake did and what I’ve been doing over the last little while is, is we’ve created some personal development classes. And so my, both of our classes, just on our own turned out to be 10 week classes. And we just we let our employees optionally go through those classes. And we just we spend the seven of the 10 weeks are about a specific topic like let’s talk about finances this week. Let’s talk about health this week. And we go through that and it’s been really really fascinating to see the changes and the growth and the happiness and the contentment that a lot of employees are feeling by going through those those classes. Again, if there was a required thing that a Boston and like know you in order to work here, I must see your budget. That’s that obviously is far crossing the line. Yeah, but if we say let’s just talk about financial principles and at whatever level you want me involved. I’m happy to be involved. And so I spend a decent amount of time with my guys. I know Jake spends this amount of time with his team just talking about their, their personal lives and what can we do to to improve their lives because obviously if they have good success in the personal lives, they’re going to be happier and more successful at work too.

Eric Stopper 28:23
What was the what was the turnout? Right and percentage of employees that that opted into that kind of thing.

Bruce Rowe 28:31
We have 20 employees and CBOE

Bruce Rowe 28:34
we have a couple of them that are remote. We had 16 of the 20 opt into it. Oh my goodness.

Eric Stopper 28:41
So that so that was a smashing success for you then. Yeah, yeah, it’s paid dividends. I’m assuming it

Bruce Rowe 28:47
Yeah. And to be honest, that one of the people that that opted out, it’s because he’s still a student and the class took place during one of his classes. So he couldn’t go by the numbers are squeezed. Yeah, but he actually met with me probably five times just to see what you guys talk about kind of fill me in a little bit. And he’s implemented a lot of things we did in the class. Then there’s another one. It’s a, it’s a mom that just had a baby. And she’s like, bad timing. Right? Another one had a grandma that passed away the first week of the class. So he basically dropped out of the class. And I asked everybody about the class and I said, was this worth it? And everyone’s like, Yeah, what’s next? And so, so we’re definitely kind of take that to the next step. And like I said, Jake, Jake’s gone through. He has the lab. Last I heard he had about 160 employees, and he’s had almost his entire team and go through one of the three classes. Amazing.

Eric Stopper 29:46
Well, we’re coming to the end of our time here, Bruce, it’s been it’s been a delight to have you on here. My last question for you is, what is evil marketing up to these days and why should people reach out to you to To help them with Google.

Bruce Rowe 30:02
Thanks for the question.

Bruce Rowe 30:05
The cool thing about what we’re doing with CBOE is that we’re not trying to get as big as possible. We’re just trying to help the right people. Meaning I could tell you story after story of somebody who said, here’s some money do SEO for us. And we turn them down, simply because we want to work with companies that that they can win with Google. In other words, if we do SEO stuff, they’re going to see a financial return on it. If they see pay per click, we’re gonna see a financial return on it. And so what we’re primarily spending our time on, is just teaching people and helping them understand how all this stuff works. And honestly, we’re trying to teach them how to do it themselves. But in some cases, they just don’t have an interest or they don’t want to do that, or they’d rather pay us to do that. So for example, one thing we started doing is we call them supermarket. boot camps, basically, twice a month, we have boot camps, where it’s an all day class, we teach them how analytics works, how SEO works, how Pay Per Click works, how conversion rate optimization works, we buy them a free lunch, we’re not selling anything to them in the process. We’re just trying to teach as much as we can. And we’ve now had close to 200 people go through the class for free. Wow, takes place here in our Provo office. If anybody is interested in attending one of those classes, just call the office, talk to Rachel and she’ll get you on the list. We won’t be doing the next one till January just due to the holidays. But it’s just really it’s really fun helping people understand that Google’s not a mystery. There’s a science to it. And if you understand how to set things up the right way, you can leverage that data and leverage that knowledge and make smart decisions about your, your marketing your website. And, and you can just have a much more pleasant experience with your website because most people They just it just kind of random guessing they just really don’t know what they’re they’re accomplishing online that we want. We want to help people fix that.

Eric Stopper 32:09
Right? Brilliant if you’re if you’re in Utah County or even just in Utah in general I mean, that’s you said that’s free because boot camp and free food right if you don’t do that I’d be surprised. So Siebel marketing. com that’s se Bo marketing. com. Their website is in the top right hand corner, their contact form is all over the website. Right? You can tell these guys are definitely a an optimization company for sure. Very happy with this site, go to Siebel marketing. com. Bruce, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Bruce Rowe 32:40
Thanks for time, Eric. Appreciate the opportunity.

Outro 32:43
Thanks for listening to the Buy Box Experts Podcast. Be sure to click subscribe, check us out on the web, and we’ll see you next time.